Good evening to all invited to my blog:
For the past month I have been going back and forth with a Nation of Islam Muslim by the youtube name of 7thjewlproductions (or something like that). He is a young man such as myself . He has videos that are pro Nation of Islam . They believe that the white man is the devil . They believe Jesus was not crucified but killed by a Roman officer. They believe alot of what The real original muslims believe . I debated with them for while as well . Far more educated then the NAtion of islam Muslims I encounter and especially more educated then this one as well. I came to him with points against the Quran . I came to him with the bulk of what I have in my Quran series here on this blog. He responded with stereo type attacks on priests and nuns . He came back with "liar" He came back with misinterpretation of the bible . He all the while failed to defend his Quran ,which he should have been doing . He acts as if I never came with the actual arguments . In turn he is lying about our debates that are clearly on his video comment board . He wants me to leave but I won't at this point because people are dying everyday because of what that book says and I have made it a personal mission to discredit the Quran . Since he denies that I stated certain things I made a flat out challenge to him . I challenged him to a live debate on youtube . He is yet to accept the challenge . He responded with cop-out remarks . I let him comment on my channel so all can see what kind of an individual he is . I also made the challenge to him on my channel . I made the same challenge comment on his channel but he is yet to approve the comment . I am waiting for him to accept . He is yet to accept my challenge on this blog or accept a pm messaging debate . I will keep everyone in the loop on what this man tends to do . IF he backs down or accepts I shall let everyone know .
Wednesday, August 10, 2011
Saturday, August 6, 2011
CARM DISCUSSIONS FORUM
BANNED
LAst week I joined CARM discussions FORUM . IT is a Christian (So they say)
Forum. Its layout is kind of like mighty righty (conservative forum) . There is a bunch of forums about the Catholic church . They have a forum category for many faiths . There is a big group of forum posts involving the Catholic church . Some of them started by anti Catholics and others by Catholics . Well for the last week I would go on these posts and correct those who were posting negatively about the Catholic church from misinterpretation or misunderstanding . WEll after a week of doing that I guess they had enough of me . One of the posters stated that the RCC was a cult . SO I responded back with Matthew 12:36-37 that states that we will all have to render an account for every careless word we speak by our words we will be acquitted and by our words we will be condemned .And I stated that Christ would not like people talking badly about his church (Matt 16 and 18) I stated that if you talk badly about his church you talk badly about him . This is pretty much what I stated in a nutshell . No more then 10 minutes later, I got a message from the moderator giving me a warning . The reason stated was that I insulted a poster . So I responded back by stating that I was warned for insulting a poster who insulted my church by calling it a cult . And that it made no sense to warn me and not him . After all it was him that first called my church (RCC ) a cult . The responded back with a 3 day band . I cannot log back in until Monday . It seems that CARM is for the most part an anti Catholic forum with no interest in hearing or seeing the truth . They have made their minds up about the Catholic church and thats all there is to it . So I wont return on Monday to that Forum . I cannot bear to see such hatred for the church without being able to respond . On youtube and Catholic answers forum you can at least respond without getting banned for the most part(unless you are really vulgar or fowl mouthed ) . CAF lets protestants state their view and defend their faith , without warnings and bans . (I got one warning from them for a misunderstanding with a fellow Catholic but other then that they are very fair) SO CAtholics be aware of CARM they only light weight comments from Catholics hit the forum . I will be back soon to finish the Quran Forum . Other then that have a good one and enjoy the blog.
LAst week I joined CARM discussions FORUM . IT is a Christian (So they say)
Forum. Its layout is kind of like mighty righty (conservative forum) . There is a bunch of forums about the Catholic church . They have a forum category for many faiths . There is a big group of forum posts involving the Catholic church . Some of them started by anti Catholics and others by Catholics . Well for the last week I would go on these posts and correct those who were posting negatively about the Catholic church from misinterpretation or misunderstanding . WEll after a week of doing that I guess they had enough of me . One of the posters stated that the RCC was a cult . SO I responded back with Matthew 12:36-37 that states that we will all have to render an account for every careless word we speak by our words we will be acquitted and by our words we will be condemned .And I stated that Christ would not like people talking badly about his church (Matt 16 and 18) I stated that if you talk badly about his church you talk badly about him . This is pretty much what I stated in a nutshell . No more then 10 minutes later, I got a message from the moderator giving me a warning . The reason stated was that I insulted a poster . So I responded back by stating that I was warned for insulting a poster who insulted my church by calling it a cult . And that it made no sense to warn me and not him . After all it was him that first called my church (RCC ) a cult . The responded back with a 3 day band . I cannot log back in until Monday . It seems that CARM is for the most part an anti Catholic forum with no interest in hearing or seeing the truth . They have made their minds up about the Catholic church and thats all there is to it . So I wont return on Monday to that Forum . I cannot bear to see such hatred for the church without being able to respond . On youtube and Catholic answers forum you can at least respond without getting banned for the most part(unless you are really vulgar or fowl mouthed ) . CAF lets protestants state their view and defend their faith , without warnings and bans . (I got one warning from them for a misunderstanding with a fellow Catholic but other then that they are very fair) SO CAtholics be aware of CARM they only light weight comments from Catholics hit the forum . I will be back soon to finish the Quran Forum . Other then that have a good one and enjoy the blog.
Tuesday, July 12, 2011
Quran Series
Covering Their Tracks
Muhammad was very clever in covering his tracks, for at least the ignorant . He knew that there would come a time when people would begin to question his book (Quran) Lest take a look at a few suras shall we?
Al-Baqarah 106
"None of our revelations do we abrogate or cause to be forgotten but we substitute something better or similar... "
This is trying to say GOd can contradict himself by saying one thing and changing view on it later. This covers his tracks not only for some of the bogus claims the Quran makes but also for the contradictions it has with the bible . It and the Bible seem to clash heads at times. The Quran denies certain things about Jesus and what Christian do in worshiping him .I will point these contradictions out in future blogs of course.
Al-i-Imran 78
"There is among them a section who distort the book with their tongues as they read so that you think it is part of the book .But it is no part of the Book .And they say "that is from Allah " but it is not from Allah . It is they who tell a lie against Allah ,and they know it!"
He would have said this about us today if he could . He covers his tracks often in the Quran . He stated the above verse to try and stop the truth from getting out about the book(Quran ) We must remember that Muhammad (when starting this religion ) took advantage of pagan Arabs . He was a respected leader among the people before writing the Quran . He was able to now manipulate the people by writing this book claiming Allah(God in Arabic) wrote it .Soon I will have another installment of the Quran series . GOd Bless ,and pray for a Muslim .
Muhammad was very clever in covering his tracks, for at least the ignorant . He knew that there would come a time when people would begin to question his book (Quran) Lest take a look at a few suras shall we?
Al-Baqarah 106
"None of our revelations do we abrogate or cause to be forgotten but we substitute something better or similar... "
This is trying to say GOd can contradict himself by saying one thing and changing view on it later. This covers his tracks not only for some of the bogus claims the Quran makes but also for the contradictions it has with the bible . It and the Bible seem to clash heads at times. The Quran denies certain things about Jesus and what Christian do in worshiping him .I will point these contradictions out in future blogs of course.
Al-i-Imran 78
"There is among them a section who distort the book with their tongues as they read so that you think it is part of the book .But it is no part of the Book .And they say "that is from Allah " but it is not from Allah . It is they who tell a lie against Allah ,and they know it!"
He would have said this about us today if he could . He covers his tracks often in the Quran . He stated the above verse to try and stop the truth from getting out about the book(Quran ) We must remember that Muhammad (when starting this religion ) took advantage of pagan Arabs . He was a respected leader among the people before writing the Quran . He was able to now manipulate the people by writing this book claiming Allah(God in Arabic) wrote it .Soon I will have another installment of the Quran series . GOd Bless ,and pray for a Muslim .
Sunday, June 26, 2011
Quran Series
Quran Violence
Many members of Islam will claim that their religion is a religion of peace . The problem is , the terrorists Muslims are all claiming that the Quran says to fight in the name o0f Allah. In the following suras (or verse) I will show you what I am talking about . Mind you as I have shown you previously that this book could not have been inspired by God .
Al-An fal 60 "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power ,including steeds of war ,to strike terror into (the hearts ) of the enemies ,and others ,besides whom ye may not know .Whatever to shall speed in the cause of Allah shall not be treated unjustly ."
Al-Anfal 74 "Those who believe and emigrate and fight for the faith ,in the cause of Allah, as well as those who give them asylum and aid -these are all in very truth the believers :for them is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous ."
Al-Anfal 75 "And those who accept faith subsequently ,and emigrate ,and fight for the faith in your company -they are of you but kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the books of Allah .Verily Allah is well aquainted with all things"
At-Tauba 5"When the forbidden months are past then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them ...but if they repent and pay Zakat then open the way for them . "
At-Tauba 12-14 and 29 all promote fighting as well.
An-Nisaa 74 "Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the here and after .To him who fights in the cause of Allah whether he is slain or gets victory -son shall we give him a reward of great value "
An-Nisaa 75 "..and why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah of those being weak ,are ill-treated and oppressed.?"
An -Nisaa 76 "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah , and those who reject faith in the cause of evil. So fight ye against the friends of Satan."
An-Nisaa 84" Fight in Allah's cause thout art held responsibility only for thyself -and rouse the unbelievers :for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment ."
Al-Baqarah 190-191 "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you .........slay them wherever you catch them ."
AL-Baqarah 216"Fighting is prescribed to you and ye may not like it ,but it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you . "
I just wanted to give you all a taste of what the Muslim extremists follow . They read the verses given above and they take them to heart.So is it the muslim extremist misinterpreting it or is it the book itself that is in error ? A little bit of both? The fact is that people are dying every day for these suras and it is not right . WE are at war since 9/11 and this book is partial to blame for it . I am sorry if you all should disagree but that fact is people are dying because of a book not even inspired by God . Now some may say "wait a minute your catholic , your catechism says that Muslims are included in salvation ." Notice I am discrediting a book not the Muslims faith completely . Hope you all enjoyed thank you .
Many members of Islam will claim that their religion is a religion of peace . The problem is , the terrorists Muslims are all claiming that the Quran says to fight in the name o0f Allah. In the following suras (or verse) I will show you what I am talking about . Mind you as I have shown you previously that this book could not have been inspired by God .
Al-An fal 60 "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power ,including steeds of war ,to strike terror into (the hearts ) of the enemies ,and others ,besides whom ye may not know .Whatever to shall speed in the cause of Allah shall not be treated unjustly ."
Al-Anfal 74 "Those who believe and emigrate and fight for the faith ,in the cause of Allah, as well as those who give them asylum and aid -these are all in very truth the believers :for them is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous ."
Al-Anfal 75 "And those who accept faith subsequently ,and emigrate ,and fight for the faith in your company -they are of you but kindred by blood have prior rights against each other in the books of Allah .Verily Allah is well aquainted with all things"
At-Tauba 5"When the forbidden months are past then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them ...but if they repent and pay Zakat then open the way for them . "
At-Tauba 12-14 and 29 all promote fighting as well.
An-Nisaa 74 "Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the here and after .To him who fights in the cause of Allah whether he is slain or gets victory -son shall we give him a reward of great value "
An-Nisaa 75 "..and why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah of those being weak ,are ill-treated and oppressed.?"
An -Nisaa 76 "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah , and those who reject faith in the cause of evil. So fight ye against the friends of Satan."
An-Nisaa 84" Fight in Allah's cause thout art held responsibility only for thyself -and rouse the unbelievers :for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment ."
Al-Baqarah 190-191 "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you .........slay them wherever you catch them ."
AL-Baqarah 216"Fighting is prescribed to you and ye may not like it ,but it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you . "
I just wanted to give you all a taste of what the Muslim extremists follow . They read the verses given above and they take them to heart.So is it the muslim extremist misinterpreting it or is it the book itself that is in error ? A little bit of both? The fact is that people are dying every day for these suras and it is not right . WE are at war since 9/11 and this book is partial to blame for it . I am sorry if you all should disagree but that fact is people are dying because of a book not even inspired by God . Now some may say "wait a minute your catholic , your catechism says that Muslims are included in salvation ." Notice I am discrediting a book not the Muslims faith completely . Hope you all enjoyed thank you .
Saturday, June 18, 2011
Quran Series .
The Quran Lacks Original Material !
(some references from the series "Beginning Apologetics/ Answering Muslims )
I will be brief on this subject and go over of the examples as to how the Quran lacks original material today .
Sura 38 :21-25 - this sura is a mutilated account of Nathan confronting David with his sins of murder and adultery from 2Samuel 12 . I suggest you pick up both the Bible and the Quran and read both one after the other and you will see that the writers of the Quran (Muhammad and his followers ) took stories right out of the bible and put their own twists on them .
Sura 12:1-11 - Is a greatly embellished account of the story of Joseph the son of Jacob with its twist of course . In Sura 12:41 , it has Egyptians in the time of Joseph , (around 1500-1200BC) using crucifixion centuries before it was invented by the Persians ,who invented it around 520 BC.For anyone interested Gen chapter 37-50 is the story of Joseph son of Jacob . If it was not in the Bible there would for certain not be a version of it in the Quran . For those of you who dont know the Quran was not written until at least 625 AD .
Sura 5:110-113 -Is not taken from the Bible but the apocrypha . It is from the" Infancy gospel of Thomas ". It is the story of Jesus making a live bird out of clay . It too was written long before the Quran .
Sura 2: 249-252 - Here we have the mix up of Saul and Gideon from Judges 7.
Sura 3:34-47 - This an embellished account of Luke Chapter 1. Mary(Maryam in Quran) ,the mother of jesus , is clearly misidentified as Miriam ,the daughter of imran, the siter of Aaron and Moses .Sura 66:12 repeats this misidentifying in Sura 19:28 it calls Mary the mother of Jesus "Sister of Aaron" directly.
This information above is enough to run from the Quran and never turn back . But many of them are blinded . The truth is the Bible was put together in the late 300s by a series of councils by the Catholic church . One of those councils being the council of Hippo in 393 AD where they determined what books would go into the Bible canon . Notice this is over 200 years before the Quran was even written .
Hope you enjoyed . Stay tuned for another addition of the Quran Series soon .
(some references from the series "Beginning Apologetics/ Answering Muslims )
I will be brief on this subject and go over of the examples as to how the Quran lacks original material today .
Sura 38 :21-25 - this sura is a mutilated account of Nathan confronting David with his sins of murder and adultery from 2Samuel 12 . I suggest you pick up both the Bible and the Quran and read both one after the other and you will see that the writers of the Quran (Muhammad and his followers ) took stories right out of the bible and put their own twists on them .
Sura 12:1-11 - Is a greatly embellished account of the story of Joseph the son of Jacob with its twist of course . In Sura 12:41 , it has Egyptians in the time of Joseph , (around 1500-1200BC) using crucifixion centuries before it was invented by the Persians ,who invented it around 520 BC.For anyone interested Gen chapter 37-50 is the story of Joseph son of Jacob . If it was not in the Bible there would for certain not be a version of it in the Quran . For those of you who dont know the Quran was not written until at least 625 AD .
Sura 5:110-113 -Is not taken from the Bible but the apocrypha . It is from the" Infancy gospel of Thomas ". It is the story of Jesus making a live bird out of clay . It too was written long before the Quran .
Sura 2: 249-252 - Here we have the mix up of Saul and Gideon from Judges 7.
Sura 3:34-47 - This an embellished account of Luke Chapter 1. Mary(Maryam in Quran) ,the mother of jesus , is clearly misidentified as Miriam ,the daughter of imran, the siter of Aaron and Moses .Sura 66:12 repeats this misidentifying in Sura 19:28 it calls Mary the mother of Jesus "Sister of Aaron" directly.
This information above is enough to run from the Quran and never turn back . But many of them are blinded . The truth is the Bible was put together in the late 300s by a series of councils by the Catholic church . One of those councils being the council of Hippo in 393 AD where they determined what books would go into the Bible canon . Notice this is over 200 years before the Quran was even written .
Hope you enjoyed . Stay tuned for another addition of the Quran Series soon .
Friday, March 4, 2011
Atheist Blog
Miracle Case Load :Shroud of Turin
(notes taken from Doxa )
For years it was just known as the cloth that covered Christ . In 1898 a picture showed its negative image to have a portrait of the body and of the face of Christ . It was clear that the cloth was in contact with the body for at least 3 hours -no later then two days . No evidence of initial decomposition ,no issue of fluids from the orfices ,and no decline of rigor mortis ,leading to flattening of the back and blurred or double imprints . Stains of a slightly darker carmine or rust color with the appearance of blood ,are seen in areas consistent with the Biblical account of the scourging of Jesus and crucifixion . Image lacks the sharp out line and vivid color of a painting and is described as "melting away" as the viewers approach the cloth.The evidence of death in a position of suspension of the arms coupled with the Charectaristic wounds and blood flows indicate that the individual was crucified .The feet indicate something of their positioning, on the cross,the left being placed on the instep of the right with a single nail impaling both . The wounds ,blood flows and stains appear to forensic pathologists flawless . So convincing was the realism of these wounds and their association with the biblical accounts that Delage,an agnostic declared them "a bundle imposing probabilities and concluded that the Shroud figure was indeed Christ . Vignon ,his assistent (1937) declared the Shrouds identification to be "as a photograph or set of finger prints ".
Direct examination began by Scientists 1969-1973 . An all -member commission was to give advise on the relic and on specific testing , which might be undertaken . 5 of the members were scientists and studies of samples of the cloth were conducted by them in 1973 .A much more detailed exam was given in 1978-1981 as Shroud of Turin research project .Samples of the pollen collected by Shroud by commission member frei(1978) yielded identification of 49 species of halophyte and desert plants were from the dead sea area. It was concluded that the Shroud must have been exposed to the middle east area.
While carbon 14 dating was done pointing towards mid-evil times as the date of the Shroud.No litmus test was given and they took the same test 3 times so as atheists claim its error free this proves its not the case . The piece they took was different from the rest and they took it from the top and it was a rewoven piece of material . Dr. Shumaker claimed no pigment dies found ,could not have been painted or drawn.This came from ultra bonit light ,ultra violate flowers photography . Cloths had been described by Raes(1976) as a 3-1 herring bone twill . A common weave in antiquity but generally used in silks of the first centuries AD. rather then linen. The thread was hand spun and hand loomed:after 1200 AD most European thread was spun on the wheel .Minute traces of cotton fibers were discovered ,an indication that the Shroud was woven on a loom also used for woven cotton .
On another note there traces in history leading us to believe that it is quite probable that the knights of Templar allegedly hid the Shroud for 100 years
So in conclusion , there is quite the bit of evidence pointing to this Shroud being the real deal .
(notes taken from Doxa )
For years it was just known as the cloth that covered Christ . In 1898 a picture showed its negative image to have a portrait of the body and of the face of Christ . It was clear that the cloth was in contact with the body for at least 3 hours -no later then two days . No evidence of initial decomposition ,no issue of fluids from the orfices ,and no decline of rigor mortis ,leading to flattening of the back and blurred or double imprints . Stains of a slightly darker carmine or rust color with the appearance of blood ,are seen in areas consistent with the Biblical account of the scourging of Jesus and crucifixion . Image lacks the sharp out line and vivid color of a painting and is described as "melting away" as the viewers approach the cloth.The evidence of death in a position of suspension of the arms coupled with the Charectaristic wounds and blood flows indicate that the individual was crucified .The feet indicate something of their positioning, on the cross,the left being placed on the instep of the right with a single nail impaling both . The wounds ,blood flows and stains appear to forensic pathologists flawless . So convincing was the realism of these wounds and their association with the biblical accounts that Delage,an agnostic declared them "a bundle imposing probabilities and concluded that the Shroud figure was indeed Christ . Vignon ,his assistent (1937) declared the Shrouds identification to be "as a photograph or set of finger prints ".
Direct examination began by Scientists 1969-1973 . An all -member commission was to give advise on the relic and on specific testing , which might be undertaken . 5 of the members were scientists and studies of samples of the cloth were conducted by them in 1973 .A much more detailed exam was given in 1978-1981 as Shroud of Turin research project .Samples of the pollen collected by Shroud by commission member frei(1978) yielded identification of 49 species of halophyte and desert plants were from the dead sea area. It was concluded that the Shroud must have been exposed to the middle east area.
While carbon 14 dating was done pointing towards mid-evil times as the date of the Shroud.No litmus test was given and they took the same test 3 times so as atheists claim its error free this proves its not the case . The piece they took was different from the rest and they took it from the top and it was a rewoven piece of material . Dr. Shumaker claimed no pigment dies found ,could not have been painted or drawn.This came from ultra bonit light ,ultra violate flowers photography . Cloths had been described by Raes(1976) as a 3-1 herring bone twill . A common weave in antiquity but generally used in silks of the first centuries AD. rather then linen. The thread was hand spun and hand loomed:after 1200 AD most European thread was spun on the wheel .Minute traces of cotton fibers were discovered ,an indication that the Shroud was woven on a loom also used for woven cotton .
On another note there traces in history leading us to believe that it is quite probable that the knights of Templar allegedly hid the Shroud for 100 years
So in conclusion , there is quite the bit of evidence pointing to this Shroud being the real deal .
Wednesday, March 2, 2011
Atheist Blog
Miracle case load :Our Lady of Guadalupe image .
(notes from www.catholicnewsagency.com)
Dr. Aldofo Orozco at the international Marian conference stated that there is no scientific explanation for "Our Lady of Guadalupe " image . All the cloths similar to the Tilma have been placed in the salty and humid enviroment around the Basilica have lasted no more then ten years.
One painting of the image created in 1789 was on display in a church near the basilica where the Tilma was placed .The image was painted from the best techniques of its time, and put in a glass case .However , 8 years later the images replica was thrown away because the colors were fading and threads were breaking . The image was exposed for 116 years without any protection .The back side of the Tilma cloth is hard while the front is soft.As noted by painters and scientists of 1666 and confirmed in 1751 by Mexican painter Miguel Cabera .1785 a worker accidently spilled a 50% nitric Acid solvent on the right side of cloth .It did not destroy the fabric of cloth not even the image .1921 an explosion broke marble floor and windows 150 meters from explosion ,but neither the Tilma nor the glass case was broken. Scientists discovered that the eyes on the image contained human shapes reflected on the Cornea of each eye.Dr. Rafael Torrija Lavoignet and Dr. Javier Torroella.In 1979 Dr. Jose Aste Tonsmann made more discoveries . There is also evidence of no uinder sketch . Any painter who took himself seriously and takes himself seriously does an under sketch .
In 1789 a Skeptical priest had 11 artists paint 11 replicas of the image .In 7 years the 11 were faded. Some atheist will shout out the name of a painter named Marco who painted the image . As you can see they have no basis for it . The painting on the Tilma does not last long while the image on the Tilma has been lasting for nearly 500 years .Atheists have no explanation for this .I challenge you all to argue these points .
(notes from www.catholicnewsagency.com)
Dr. Aldofo Orozco at the international Marian conference stated that there is no scientific explanation for "Our Lady of Guadalupe " image . All the cloths similar to the Tilma have been placed in the salty and humid enviroment around the Basilica have lasted no more then ten years.
One painting of the image created in 1789 was on display in a church near the basilica where the Tilma was placed .The image was painted from the best techniques of its time, and put in a glass case .However , 8 years later the images replica was thrown away because the colors were fading and threads were breaking . The image was exposed for 116 years without any protection .The back side of the Tilma cloth is hard while the front is soft.As noted by painters and scientists of 1666 and confirmed in 1751 by Mexican painter Miguel Cabera .1785 a worker accidently spilled a 50% nitric Acid solvent on the right side of cloth .It did not destroy the fabric of cloth not even the image .1921 an explosion broke marble floor and windows 150 meters from explosion ,but neither the Tilma nor the glass case was broken. Scientists discovered that the eyes on the image contained human shapes reflected on the Cornea of each eye.Dr. Rafael Torrija Lavoignet and Dr. Javier Torroella.In 1979 Dr. Jose Aste Tonsmann made more discoveries . There is also evidence of no uinder sketch . Any painter who took himself seriously and takes himself seriously does an under sketch .
In 1789 a Skeptical priest had 11 artists paint 11 replicas of the image .In 7 years the 11 were faded. Some atheist will shout out the name of a painter named Marco who painted the image . As you can see they have no basis for it . The painting on the Tilma does not last long while the image on the Tilma has been lasting for nearly 500 years .Atheists have no explanation for this .I challenge you all to argue these points .
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