Atheist Blog

Miracle Case Load :Shroud of Turin
(notes taken from Doxa )

For years it was just known as the cloth that covered Christ . In 1898 a picture showed its negative image to have a portrait of the body and of the face of Christ . It was clear that the cloth was in contact with the body for at least 3 hours -no later then two days . No evidence of initial decomposition ,no issue of fluids from the orfices ,and no decline of rigor mortis ,leading to flattening of the back and blurred or double imprints . Stains of a slightly darker carmine or rust color with the appearance of blood ,are seen in areas consistent with the Biblical account of the scourging of Jesus and crucifixion . Image lacks the sharp out line and vivid color of a painting and is described as "melting away" as the viewers approach the cloth.The evidence of death in a position of suspension of the arms coupled with the Charectaristic wounds and blood flows indicate that the individual was crucified .The feet indicate something of their positioning, on the cross,the left being placed on the instep of the right with a single nail impaling both . The wounds ,blood flows and stains appear to forensic pathologists flawless . So convincing was the realism of these wounds and their association with the biblical accounts that Delage,an agnostic declared them "a bundle imposing probabilities and concluded that the Shroud figure was indeed Christ . Vignon ,his assistent (1937) declared the Shrouds identification to be "as a photograph or set of finger prints ".
Direct examination began by Scientists 1969-1973 . An all -member commission was to give advise on the relic and on specific testing , which might be undertaken . 5 of the members were scientists and studies of samples of the cloth were conducted by them in 1973 .A much more detailed exam was given in 1978-1981 as Shroud of Turin research project .Samples of the pollen collected by Shroud by commission member frei(1978) yielded identification of 49 species of halophyte and desert plants were from the dead sea area. It was concluded that the Shroud must have been exposed to the middle east area.

While carbon 14 dating was done pointing towards mid-evil times as the date of the Shroud.No litmus test was given and they took the same test 3 times so as atheists claim its error free this proves its not the case . The piece they took was different from the rest and they took it from the top and it was a rewoven piece of material . Dr. Shumaker claimed no pigment dies found ,could not have been painted or drawn.This came from ultra bonit light ,ultra violate flowers photography . Cloths had been described by Raes(1976) as a 3-1 herring bone twill . A common weave in antiquity but generally used in silks of the first centuries AD. rather then linen. The thread was hand spun and hand loomed:after 1200 AD most European thread was spun on the wheel .Minute traces of cotton fibers were discovered ,an indication that the Shroud was woven on a loom also used for woven cotton .
On another note there traces in history leading us to believe that it is quite probable that the knights of Templar allegedly hid the Shroud for 100 years

So in conclusion , there is quite the bit of evidence pointing to this Shroud being the real deal .

Atheist Blog

Miracle case load :Our Lady of Guadalupe image .
(notes from www.catholicnewsagency.com)
Dr. Aldofo Orozco at the international Marian conference stated that there is no scientific explanation for "Our Lady of Guadalupe " image . All the cloths similar to the Tilma have been placed in the salty and humid enviroment around the Basilica have lasted no more then ten years.
One painting of the image created in 1789 was on display in a church near the basilica where the Tilma was placed .The image was painted from the best techniques of its time, and put in a glass case .However , 8 years later the images replica was thrown away because the colors were fading and threads were breaking . The image was exposed for 116 years without any protection .The back side of the Tilma cloth is hard while the front is soft.As noted by painters and scientists of 1666 and confirmed in 1751 by Mexican painter Miguel Cabera .1785 a worker accidently spilled a 50% nitric Acid solvent on the right side of cloth .It did not destroy the fabric of cloth not even the image .1921 an explosion broke marble floor and windows 150 meters from explosion ,but neither the Tilma nor the glass case was broken. Scientists discovered that the eyes on the image contained human shapes reflected on the Cornea of each eye.Dr. Rafael Torrija Lavoignet and Dr. Javier Torroella.In 1979 Dr. Jose Aste Tonsmann made more discoveries . There is also evidence of no uinder sketch . Any painter who took himself seriously and takes himself seriously does an under sketch .
In 1789 a Skeptical priest had 11 artists paint 11 replicas of the image .In 7 years the 11 were faded. Some atheist will shout out the name of a painter named Marco who painted the image . As you can see they have no basis for it . The painting on the Tilma does not last long while the image on the Tilma has been lasting for nearly 500 years .Atheists have no explanation for this .I challenge you all to argue these points .